Thing is to me PHP is relying on other people's work... since its massive function library does so much of the brute force coding I grew up on for you. That's why abstraction atop abstraction just sucks for me as where does it end?

And it ends where it always does, in false simplicity. In the desire to make things look simpler, you end up making accomplishing the task harder. That's the problem I constantly have with "frameworks" is I can usually accomplish the same thing in simpler and smaller code without the framework, not counting the size of the framework against the total.

Though I will say server side it's a lot better than client-side f***wittery like bootcrap or failwind.

Even so I look at trying to output markup in React, Angular, or Vue, I have to choke back the desire to deliver a pimp-slap to the people who created them. Especially when a simple HTTP.response.write with template literals would do the same job a thousand times simpler!

I look at the code made with that numbnuttery and start yelling at the display: "Why are you making something so flipping simple so huffing hard?" with the splitting things up that shouldn't be split, spreading things out over separate files that there's no reason to do that to, and the general reek of "eye cans haz teh intarwebs" coding techniques.

But then you look at dimwitted shit-shows of disinformation and web-rot like W3Schools and go "oh" like you just found out Aurelio just punched your son in the face.