And that's flat out what I just don't understand, because these frameworks provide NONE of those things. They do the exact flipping opposite!

You end up with a deeper build process, several hundred classes you have to learn instead of just using CSS the way it was meant to, you have to write two to ten times the HTML making the back end harder to maintain, and the general "architecture" of how they work -- taking a giant steaming dump on the markup with presentation -- is basically the same as death-ray and tofu-dreg architecture.

And that's where the "can act as a framework" part goes off the rails, because HTML and CSS already are one! All you need to do is stop thinking about what things look like when you write your base HTML. It's a simple and easy rule, saying what things look like doesn't belong in the HTML, and if you are choosing your tags, classes, ID's, or attributes for those reasons alone, you are flipping the bird at good practices and driving web development back in time 25 years.

You might also want to study up on the history of HTML a bit. HTML is namespace of SGML, not XML. XHTML was a reformulation of HTML abusing SGML's rules and flaws in the browser engines to fit an XML namespace. HTML, "real HTML" is not XML compatible, never was. Not sure where you got the idea it was the root, because it's not.

I don't do off the shelf templates, because I know HTML and CSS. I don't do frameworks because I know HTML and CSS which basically ARE the framework. I don't need to have some third party "architecture" because semantic markup and separation of presentation from content IS my architecture.

And again if writing simple basic HTML and CSS to spew out in as much if not less time than it does with some copypasta rubbish for a framework, you need to go back and learn HTML and CSS instead of wasting just as much time learning these f***wit half-tweet nose-breathing dipshit frameworks and the bald faced lies the quacks, morons, snake oil peddlers, hoodoo doctors, and outright scam artists have duped, suckered, bamboozled and hoodwinked people into thinking are real.

Front end frameworks are as big a predatory scam as Amway, Mary Kay,, Vector Knives, Goop, or any of the idiotic BS marks and rubes fall for.